A little more than a year ago, Mikhail Gorbachev raised eyebrows when he appeared with his granddaughter in a Pizza Hut commercial filmed near Red Square.
The former Soviet president, who had shared the pinnacle of world power only with the president of the United States, had come to this: merely an actor in a TV ad.
The commercial added to Gorbachev’s already high popularity in the United States. From New York to Los Angeles people adored him for bringing an end to the Cold War and for possessing a congeniality that emphasized his apparent love for Americans.
Ironically, back home the former Kremlin boss’s popularity was in the dumps.
He won less than 1 percent of the vote cast in Russia’s 1996 presidential election and suffered waves of hostility from Russians living in economic despair and political chaos. His Gorbachev Foundation think tank nearly went belly up with the collapse of Russia’s banking system and the ruble on Aug. 17. Recently, however, he has enjoyed signs of a small turnaround in public opinion.
Gorbachev, 68, met with Tribune editors Thursday before an appearance at Benedictine University in Lisle.
Q: Have you ever regretted appearing in the Pizza Hut commercial?
A: No. At first, some people tried to criticize me but (in general) it was well received. It was an exception. I needed money for the construction of the Gorbachev Foundation headquarters. I had had a financial shortfall. The entire fee (went) for the building of the headquarters, the library and the archives. I did not see a single dollar.
Q: Well, your grandchild looked good on TV.
A: Ah, Anastasia. She has been asking me when they will be filming again.
Q: Considering how popular you are here, do you wish you could enter your candidacy in next year’s U.S. presidential elections?
A: Good question. It reminds me of the 1992 election. A television crew in Los Angeles asked me if I would consider being Ross Perot’s running mate. I said, “Of course not, that wouldn’t be good.” They asked why. I said, “That’s too little for me. I was a president and you want me to run for vice president?” Ten minutes later they were showing it on TV. You have a good bunch of candidates for the next election; you don’t need (outsiders).
Q: What is your advice to American investors pulling out of Russia or thinking of doing so because of the devastated economy?
A: Most are not pulling out, most will stay. To the others, my message is this: Whatever doubts and concerns you have now, use the moment to look for (Russian) partners and prepare projects you can implement. While the political situation is clearing up, use this time to prepare. In the final years of the Soviet Union and the early years of Russia we were hoping that we would have a major partnership with America in modernizing our economy. Right now, 5 or 10 big projects would be of great importance in order to stop emerging anti-Americanism in Russian public attitudes.
Q: Anti-Americanism?
A: Anti-Americanism is becoming common among some politicians. What’s worse, it’s becoming more common among the public. That’s particularly bad. Our people had a kind of euphoria in favor of a partnership with the U.S. Now there is disappointment and disenchantment. People are saying that the U.S. is not a reliable partner, that the U.S. just calculates its own benefit, its own profit. Some people are saying the U.S. wants to keep Russia down, to keep Russia weak in order to take advantage of the situation. And, of course, the communists are exploiting this change of mood.
Q: What needs to be done now to stabilize Russia politically and create conditions that will build confidence outside in Russia?
A: First of all everything possible needs to be done to help the International Monetary Fund to overcome their doubts about Russia. Russia and the IMF seem to be at daggers with one another. This is bad. Maybe people in Russia are getting too nervous. This is understandable because if the IMF position doesn’t change soon, and if the money pledged has not been paid, the scenario of developments will change. People are asking whether the U.S.–perhaps the West–wants to use the IMF as a tool for (keeping things) difficult for Russia. Right now Russia can’t do without the help of the IMF. I would very much hope that the U.S. administration will take a stand on supporting Russia because, after all, the IMF (and other global finance groups) look toward the U.S. for guidance.
In order to modernize Russia hundreds of billions of dollars will not be enough. This kind of money can only be generated by the Russian economy itself, and the Russian economy is in the process of restarting. Modernization will generate that money. So ultimately it is the investment that we need.
Q: Next week there will be a ceremony at the Truman Library in Independence, Mo., marking the admission of Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary into NATO. How do you view this?
A: There’s nothing to celebrate. When we ended our confrontation with the West and got rid of the ideological component in international relations, we wanted–and I believe all the major players in the world wanted–to move toward a new world order based on interaction and cooperation. We were saying that we would reform the United Nations and give it a major role. Preparing the world for the 21st Century was to be our focus. This is not happening. The UN is being held in contempt; the Security Council is being held in contempt. Some people just don’t want that kind equitable cooperation with the rest of the world. Well, those people who don’t like the world as it is maybe should go to Mars.
Instead, you are pushing NATO. In the late 1980s NATO and the Warsaw Pact were being reshaped to emphasize its political role rather than its military role. But today NATO is again emphasizing its military role and assumes the right to make decisions on airstrikes and the use of force without the UN Security Council. This was one thing when it was a matter of Bosnia. But let me tell you with Serbia this could be a lot worse. This could cause problems that we would not be able to solve for a long, long time. What about other places: Take Nagorno-Karabakh (inside Azerbaijian), for example. Will someone bomb Armenia? Or Chechnya? Chechnya is trying to succeed from Russia. Would you consider airstrikes against Russia? What about Tibet? If the situation deteriorates there, are you ready to go to war with China?
What is making it more difficult for the United States to develop appropriate policies is a superiority complex. The United States has declared that it is the winner of the Cold War and this is where you get inspiration. I believe that this concept could take you too far. It might foresee that the world has now a single superpower, a single center of power and this is the power that knows where to lead the world toward a bright future.
But this is a Utopia. The world is becoming increasingly diverse. The United States may of course hope that it could successfully use pressure against smaller countries. Would it be ready to use pressure against big military countries? Even though all countries like good jazz, I don’t think all countries would like to dance to U.S. music. Every country has its own music and likes its own music.
The world would not accept a U.S. that assumes the role of a global policeman. It is already obvious that many countries are upset about the U.S. trying to play this role.
Q: How do you view your low popularity in Russia?
A: Two weeks ago there was a premiere of the new film by (Oscar-winning director) Nikita Mikhalkov in the Kremlin. It was attended by all major politicians in Moscow. (Prime Minister Yevgeny) Primakov was there. When Mikhalkov was making his opening remarks, he introduced Primakov and welcomed the members of Parliament. Then he said, “I’d like to salute the president of the Soviet Union, President Gorbachev.” There was an ovation, the entire group–those from all political parties were present–applauded. I had to stand up.
Why is that happening? When (Russian President) Boris Yeltsin was strong, people did not want to show openly their attitude toward me, knowing the kind of person Yeltsin is. Everyone wanted to talk to me, but rather quietly. Now they are less concerned. They see that Yeltsin is down, Yeltsin is politically dead. And they are beginning to show more openly what they really think about me.
The San Remo Song Festival in Italy (in late February during which Gorbachev delivered a speech that won boffo ratings) was seen on television by 17 million Italians, and it was also shown to hundreds of millions in many other countries. Russia’s Channel 1 television showed that program for the first time. It was the first time I was shown (in Russia) in that way. What is important is that at the end of the show, the commentator told his viewers that they had seen the entire festival from San Remo, the entire crowd welcoming Gorbachev. Then the commentator said he was given this ovation because there are only two persons in the world who can get that kind of support–Gorbachev and the pope. Whether or not this is true is not important, but a commentator actually saying it on Russian television is important. They are beginning to recognize that something is happening.
If my comeback happens while I am still alive, I will be very happy. In Russia all reformers always ended badly. But you can see that at least now I still am alive and well.
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An edited transcript
