Plastic and developing children

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Hi everyone.Let’s get started as we already have some questions. I’m Julie Deardorff, your moderator for today’s chat on plastic. I’ve had a special interest in plastics ever since I had my blood and urine tested and the results showed sky-high levels of phthalates, or the chemicals used to make plastic flexible. This was while I was actively trying to avoid the chemicals. The health effects of this aren’t certain, but there’s mounting research showing they may be some reason for concern.

Today, we’re lucky to have two of the top experts in the field; science writer and author Susan Freinkel and Dr. Shanna Swan.

My first guest, Susan Freinkel is the author of the new book “Plastic: A Toxic Love Story.” She spent three years learning about the costs and benefits of plastic. Today she says she’s more appreciative and more worried about plastic than she’s ever been before. She hopes her book will help broaden the much needed conversation about the proper place for plastics in 21st century life.”

Hi Susan, welcome to the chat.

HI, pleased to be here.

My next guest, Dr. Shanna Swan, was one of the first scientists to document associations between phthalates and reproductive development in humans. Dr. Swan is a reproductive epidemiologist and professor and Vice Chair of Preventive Medicine at the Mount Sinai Medical Center.
Welcome to the chat, Dr. Swan.

Hi Julie and Susan,
Glad to be chatting with you today.
Shanna

The main danger with reusing single-use plastic bottles isn’t because of the plastic. but because of bacteria from your mouth that can linger linger on the plastic. There are studies suggesting that the plastic used in water bottles, PET, can leach some estrogenic compound or compounds that have not been identified. We don’t don’t know what the compounds are, how much is leached or if they pose a risk to health, but if you are concerned, by all means switch to stainless steel reusable bottles.

Karen, I don’t know of evidence that these products are harmful, but if you want to be very precautionary, you might try to find alternatives.

But we shouldn’t microwave baggies, right?

Right, but that’s because they’re not meant for the microwave and the plastic can melt.

There is a very large literature showing that male reproductive problems, in some parts of the world, are increasing (testicular cancer, male genital anomalies) and sperm counts and testosterone are declining. The difficult problem is identifying causes of these trends. However, there is a great deal of data showing that particular chemical exposures (such as dioxin, dibromochloropropane, lead etc. etc) can and do have a serious impact on male fertility.

The problem with existing legislation is that the vast majority of chemicals in commerce have not been tested for safety to health or environment. The main federal law, Toxic Substances Control Act, grandfathered in the 60,000 or so chemicals in use at the time it was enacted in 1976. And it has been so toothless that the EPA has only conducted safety reviews of about 200 of the 20,000 or so chemicals introduced since oft he remaining 20,000 or so chemicals added since. The agency could not even successfully bar the known carcinogen asbestos under the act. And there is little coordination between that law and the laws other federal agencies use to regulate chemicals. The issue isn’t quantity of regulation, but quality: I think we needs laws on the books that require manufacturers to demonstrate a chemical is not dangerous before it is put into commerce, rather than the current system that treats all chemicals as safe until shown to be dangerous.

Gil Ross is the Executive Director and Medical Director of the American Council on Science and Health (ACSH).

Yes. PVC that contains phthalates, and particularly the one of greatest concern –diethylhexyl phthalate (DEHP)– is a big concern. BPA may also be in some PVC as are other chemicals of concern (and the manufacture and disposal of PVC poses huge health problems). BPA in polycarbonate is of course also concerning.

I would agree. But it does indicate an issue worth examination.

I think we don’t know. There are plastics that the FDA has deemed microwavable after extensive “leaching tests” that look at whether and what types of chemicals can leach out. of the degree to which chemicals leach out. . In principle, that label indicates it should be safe to put that package in the microwave. What’s more not all plastics contain chemicals that could leach out.
Here’s the thing. Without being unduly alarmist we don’t really know the full health implications of exposure to the chemicals that are contained in plastics. Scientists have only just begun teasing out the ways in which various of these chemicals may affect human health. Some of these chemicals are thought to be endocrine disrupters which interfere with the network of glands that orchestrate growth and development. The effects can be complicated, subtle and may not show up for years or decades. Whether they pose a serious threat to health is still a source of much debate within the scientific community. That said, if any group were to be affected by hormone disrupters, it would be fetuses, infants and children whose systems are still works in progress.
So if you are really concerned, it’s probably better to err on the side of caution and use glass or ceramic containers to heat food in the microwave. If you do use plastic, steer clear of containers or plastic wrap that aren’t marked microwave-safe. And keep plastic wrap at least an inch away from the food since it can melt if it comes directly into contact with very hot food.

I don’t think moms should be too concerned about particular exposures they or their children had. The health effects that are seen from plastics are changes in the population, but it is not possible to link a particular exposure to a particular outcome in an individual.

Over 300 chemicals have been found in breast milk, and a similar number in amniotic fluid, so we and our children are now exposed to a very complex mixture of chemicals that have not been tested for safety.

It depends on what type of plastic that cover is made from. If it is made from polyethylene or polypropylene, those are both pretty safe plastics that don’t contain much in the way of additives.

Hi Eileen,
I was tested through a pilot project that involved this group: http://www.commonweal.org/ and Environment Illinois. It’s expensive and most labs are research labs. You can probably find commercial labs but it’s $150 for each chemical panel, Shanna just told me. I can try to follow this up for you if you want to email me after the chat.

Stay away from vinyl bags — that plastic can leach phthalates which may be harmful to health. But otherwise, I would say I would say look for a material that’s durable and washable and can be used as long as possible.

Valerie, a recent study from the Silent Spring Institute (March 30, Env Health Perspectives) including 20 volunteers showed that when people eat unprocessed organic foods they CAN lower their exposure.

THis is a hard one!! We have to take these animal studies seriously. Remember, no Human Subjects Committee would allow us to randomly assign a pregnant mom to be exposed to these chemicals. So this is the only experimental evidence we have. But then of course we also need to conduct the human studies. For the chemicals we are discussing the correspondence seems good, and I think the animal studies raise important hypotheses about human health.

It’s pretty hard to avoid food in plastic altogether. To the extent that you can buy food without packaging that’s better, not just for toxicity, but to move us away from overpackaging in general. If you’re really concerned, I would rely on glass and ceramic containers to heat or cook your food.

Susan, why is there plastic in gum?

Gum used to be made with natural rubber or chicle. Now gum makers use a synthetic polymer to make it elastic, chewy and well, gummy.

Jody, I used bottles with my youngest son. Never broke one.

Yes. It appears that exposure is higher in fatty foods, and of course what happened to the food before it is stored can affect the exposure level. For example, if the food went through PVC tubing in the processing before it is stored, this probably (the study has to be done!) increasing the contaminant level.

This could be a whole dissertation. Short answer: yes, I think manufacturers should be held accountable for the consequences of the products/chemicals they put in the marketplace. But that means definitively establishing what the health effects of these various chemicals are, which is easier said than done in the case of endocrine disrupters. There is currently effort underway to write reform legislation of the main federal law regulating chemicals.Everyone, from the Natural Resources Defense Council to the American Chemistry Council agree the system doesn’t work. But their idea of solving the problem differ widely and yes, the ACC is working hard to prevent a more precautionary approach from being written into the new law.

These are likely to be made of PET plastic, which is considered one of the “safe” plastics (remember “4,5, 1 and 2, all the rest are bad for you”?) but that said, a recent study from Germany found that water stored in PET was estrogenic. So it is probably relative. I would say PET, perhaps, safer but not absolutely safe.

It’s polyvinyl acetate. I don’t know a whole lot more than that.

There are lots of different kinds of plastics, and they made from different chemicals, contain different types of additives so the risks of take-out containers would depend on the type of plastic it’s made from. Often as not, they’re made from PET or polystyrene — both of which have been shown, in limited studies, to leach estrogenic compounds, though we don’t know what those compounds are or what their effects on health might be. .

In the EU, under REACH, new chemicals are assumed to be harmful until shown otherwise. This precautionary approach is far more health protective.

Here’s more info on REACH.

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/chemicals/reach/reach_intro.htm

The degree to which parents chose to limit exposure is really personal, and everyone deals with risks in different ways. You have to strike a balance that you feel comfortable with as this evidence is emerging. This is in contrast to, for example, the clearly demonstrated risks of cigarette smoking or lead.

I think you can make yourself crazy. We know that some plastics — like vinyl, which leaches pthalates, or polycarbonate, which leaches BPA — may be worrisome. We know others look to be pretty safe, such as polyethylene, the stuff of baggies, or polypropylene, used in margarine tubs and yogurt containers. Unfortunately, this is not a problem you can shop your way out of given how completely ubiquitous plastic is. That’s why we need tougher chemical laws.

What isn’t. PVC is one of the most common plastics in use, partly because it’s an incredibly versatile plastic. In its hard form, PVC is used in water pipes and vinyl siding. In its soft flexible form, it can be found in garden hoses, floor files, wall paper, shower curtains, toys, IV bags and tubing, food processing equipment, flip flops, packaging and dozens of other applications.

I don’t know..but it is not just off-gassing that I am concerned about. And polycarbonate and PVC continues to breakdown throughout its use.

Regarding off-gassing, you may want to check with the Center for Environmental Health and Justice http://chej.org/ or the Environment Working Group www.ewg.org. Both are advocacy groups.

This is exactly right. And not just packaging, nor just consumers. For example, Health Care Without Harm actively campaigned to get DEHP out of tubing in the NICU and were successful is many major hospitals around the country,

Not that I know of.

Are the new plastics any safer?

One would hope so, but there really is no guarantee because the main law regulating chemicals does not require manufacturers to demonstrate a chemical is safe before putting it on the marketplace. NatureWorks, which makes the most common new plastic, a corn-based plastic called Ingeo, claims a commitment to using non-toxic chemicals. And it requires any manufacturer using its plastic to abide by a “prohibited substances list,” which bars the use of various heavy metals, carcinogens, endocrine disrupters and other dangerous chemicals.

For example, the plastic that is replacing bisphenol A, which used to be in most baby bottles.

By that I mean plastics made from plants or other renewable sources, ie., which aren’t made from oil or natural gas.

That’s all we have time for. Thanks so much for taking the time to participate and for your answers, Susan and Dr. Swan.

Thanks for having me.

Sure, you’re very welcome! It was interesting and informative.

Please join us at 11 a.m. CT (12 p.m. ET/9 a.m. PT) on Thursday, May 12, for a live hour-long chat with Dr. Paul Schyve, senior vice president for healthcare Improvement at The Joint Commission, about medical errors and how patients and consumers can take an active role in helping prevent them. The chat is moderated by Chicago Tribune reporter Bruce Japsen.

You can also follow me @Juliedeardorff