Khaled Abu Arafa, minister of Jerusalem affairs in the Hamas-led Palestinian government, was among those seized last week in an Israeli roundup. In a recent interview before that arrest, as gunfire erupted in the streets outside his office in Izzariyeh near Jerusalem, he warned that U.S. and Israeli policies toward Hamas ultimately will bring more radical fundamentalists to power.
Q: Tell me about your background.
A: My father was a longtime member of the Muslim Brotherhood. My brother was killed by Israel in 1994. I have been arrested four times recently. They accused me of organizing demonstrations at Al Aqsa Mosque, of raising money. This is not true.
Q: How do you separate the Hamas movement from the Hamas-led government?
A: If you are in the government, you have to respect the [Palestinian] law. But if you are in the movement, you don’t have to.
Q: When did you join Hamas?
A: This is secret–if I joined Hamas. I don’t deny that I am always encouraging people to learn, to work for and to love Islam. I work in five cultural and academic institutions. But Israelis will accuse you of joining a terrorist organization and sentence you to long years in administrative detention. I can say I’m sympathetic to the movement.
Q: Do you want to establish a more Islamic society in the Palestinian territories?
A: Our nation moves toward religion automatically, and this is a case that is not dependent on a commitment to a nation but to Islamic or Arab issues–Hamas, or no Hamas. For us, our religious theory is pragmatic and it moves inside our society in a peaceful way, step by step.
Q: Some in Israel think the danger is greater from Hamas than from Osama bin Laden.
A: But it’s not true. In fact, the Muslim Brotherhood and Hamas in particular have announced that they don’t agree with bin Laden and they also condemn all attacks by Al Qaeda. The West, the U.S. and Israel understand that the alienation of Hamas–if this government falls–will bring bin Laden to this area. And despite that, they still try to knock down the government.
Q: Do you think President Bush understands that?
A: It’s not necessary for Bush to understand that. The people around him who run the government know that. In my opinion, bin Laden, the Taliban, [Abu Musab al-] Zarqawi are still alive in a sense. We understand that the Americans need them to still be alive to keep their excuse for controlling this region.
Q: Should America start dealing with moderate Islamic movements in the region?
A: Why has America in the past supported only dictatorial Arab governments? Because if Israel, Americans and Europeans look at the Arab and Islamic world and they are only interested in economic resources, oil, the result will be more Islamic fundamentalism. These kinds of relations are not based on partnership, exchange of views and respect for the civilizations of others. The current policy of the U.S. government–if the Hamas-led government falls–will be, 100 percent, to create more extremism in the region.
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Palestinians `will not . . . raise the white flag’
Sheik Nayef Rajoub, minister of religious affairs for the Hamas-led government, was reported to be among those rounded up by Israeli forces last week. Like most Hamas leaders, Rajoub, 48, is devoutly religious and is no stranger to Israeli jails. He views jihad as a legitimate response to Israeli occupation and sees no hope for reconciliation. A former sheik at his local mosque, he was interviewed recently through an interpreter at his home in Dura, outside Hebron.
Q: What challenges do you face going from a militant opposition group to an Islamic movement running a government?
A: The first and major challenge is that the world, the civilized world, did not respect our democratic path [decision]. And this has resulted in this siege [a U.S.-led cutoff of international aid to the Palestinian government] and isolation of our people and the punishing of all Palestinians because of our democratic path.
Q: Will the economic problems and the lack of payment of government employees cause your government to fall?
A: I think that all the pressure imposed on the Palestinian people will not push them to raise the white flag. The people still support the government even more. The U.S. and the EU should review their policy. This is not Iraq or Sudan. . . . We see a distinction between the principles and values that the U.S. believes and their policies. There is a big difference between what the U.S. says and what it does.
Q: America and Israel insist your government must recognize Israel, renounce violence and accept previous peace agreements.
A: There is nothing in the world that says a party must recognize a state. Abu Mazen [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas] is the president, and he has the authority to negotiate with Israel. If any agreement is reached, we should bring it to the Palestinian nation for a vote, and if the Palestinians vote for it, we will respect it even if we don’t like it.
Q: The Hamas covenant considers all the land of Palestine, including what is now Israel, as an Islamic trust and it says no Muslim can give it away.
A: Our Shariah, or religious law, is clear concerning the land that Palestinians controlled through history. It’s like our religion; it’s all our land. But we can go on–until we are able to bring it back. If there is an agreement, then we should respect it, and our children and their children.
Q: What if Israel should decide there is no partner for peace on the Palestinian side, as it did with the late Palestinian President Yasser Arafat toward the end?
A: If they did not respect Arafat and Abu Mazen as partners in peace, how will they respect [Prime Minister Ismail] Haniyeh and [Foreign Minister Mahmoud] Zahar as partners? There is no hope to open negotiations between the two sides.
Q: What is your view of the so-called prisoners’ document?
A: We will accept any agreement in which the [Israeli] occupation is removed, but this will not end the conflict. For that, there has to be a Palestinian state in the land as it was prior to the borders on June 4, 1967–with no settlements, and the border crossings in our hands, and the end of war.
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srowley@tribune.com
The Tribune’s special report on Hamas can be found at chicagotribune.com/hamas
