Republican legislators on Wednesday revived a bill aimed at repealing Indiana’s handgun permit requirement that has faced objections from major police organizations.
During a conference committee on Senate Bill 209, which adds substances to the scheduled list of controlled substances, the language of the bill was removed. Sen. Mike Young, R-Indianapolis, who co-authored Senate Bill 209, will find another bill to put in the language regarding the drug schedules.
In its place, the committee added in language of House Bill 1077, as passed by the House, which would allow anyone age 18 or older to carry a handgun in public except for reasons such as having a felony conviction or a dangerous mental illness. Supporters argue the permit requirement undermines Second Amendment protections.
Conference committee chair Sen. Eric Koch, R-Bedford, allowed no testimony on the bill, saying afterward that the issue had been “thoroughly vetted” through lengthy committee public hearings earlier in the legislative session.
“The supermajority used the conference committee process to resurrect their radical proposal to eliminate handgun permits in Indiana,” Rep. Ragen Hatcher, D-Gary, said in a release. “The Democratic members of this committee were given mere minutes to look over the committee report.”
Sen. Rodney Pol Jr., D-Chesterton, said “it’s not good policy” to let House Bill 1077 move forward in this way.
“This is a major, major shift,” Pol said. “I’m very concerned with what this bill will do.”
The conference committee members agreed to take the report to their respective caucuses, and the report was assigned to the rules committee.
Hatcher, a member of the conference committee, said she would not sign off on the committee report because Senate Bill 209 should remain a drug schedules bill. Drug overdose and drug use “is an important issue in Indiana,” she said.
But, Hatcher said that Republicans are “not concerned” with getting her on board with the report and will find someone else to sign it.
“This happens every year,” Hatcher said. “The don’t want any further discussion.”
“By leaving the room and cutting off testimony by calling a recess, the supermajority signaled that they do not care about what the public thinks,” Hatcher said in a release. “I stayed to hear from those who came out today because I believe transparency and public input are incredibly important to my duties as a legislator.”
After the committee adjourned, Sen. Greg Taylor, D-Indianapolis, asked assistant chief of Indiana State Police Communications and Information Systems Major Robert Simpson to testify. Four Democratic legislators heard his testimony.
Under current law, Simpson said an officer can check if someone has a license to carry a gun while checking his or her driver’s license because that information is provided through the Indiana Bureau of Motor Vehicles.
If House Bill 1077 became law, the only way an officer could check if someone could carry a gun would be to search his or her criminal history, Simpson said. But, an officer can only check someone’s criminal history if a crime was committed, he said.
So, in a scenario where an officer pulls someone over on the highway and sees a gun in the car, the officer wouldn’t be able to check the BMV records to see if the person has a license and wouldn’t be able to check criminal history because a major crime was likely not committed, Simpson said.
“I can run everyone’s license. I can’t run a criminal background on everyone,” Simpson said. “Unless a crime is committed, they won’t know if they have a permit.”
Simpson said officers will “be abandoned out there not knowing” if someone is safely carrying a gun. Additionally, the bill threatens public safety because officers won’t be able to seize guns, he said.
“There is an inherent risk. If you see (a gun) you can’t check it, and it ties our hands,” Simpson said. “We wouldn’t be able to prevent something from happening because it removes a process that works.”
Simpson said he’s heard the narrative that the gun permit process is impacting the “good guy,” which he said “is simply not true.”
In 2020 and 2021, approximately 10,600 gun permit requests were rejected, and the top two reasons for rejecting the permits were the applicant had a felony conviction or priors, Simpson said.
If House Bill 1077 were to become law, one can assume that those who were denied would just start carrying guns, Simpson said. Another impact the bill would have, if signed into law, is more people in the public would be walking around openly carrying guns.
Hatcher said she is concerned about the impact the bill would have on officers as well as the public.
“I’m definitely concerned with what society could turn into because of it,” Hatcher said.
Simpson told Hatcher the Indiana State Police shares her concerns.
“You’ll see more people thinking ‘I can open carry and do this,'” Simpson said.
After the testimony, Rep. Matt Pierce, D-Bloomington, said there is “a lot of rhetoric” from legislators about supporting police officers, but this bill goes against that.
” (Republicans) are going to pass a bill that’s going to harm police,” Pierce said.
Hatcher said she would’ve liked to see officials from Gary, South Bend, Fort Wayne and other urban areas come speak out against the bill because it will directly impact them.
“It’s a disappointing bill for urban areas,” Hatcher aid.
